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tictictic_OnEbay
(enthusiast)
01/15/08 02:47 PM
Paypal Payment Reversed!  

Am I the only one who didn't know Paypal payments could be reversed? I ship same or next day for cash, USPS money orders, and Paypal instant payments. I think most people do. I delay shipping for checks (even cashier's) and non-UPSP MOs.

Today, I got this from Paypal:
...............................................................................................
We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer’s bank. A bank reversal can be requested by the bank itself or the bank account holder.

As a result, the following transaction has been reversed:
Transaction Date: Jan. 3, 2008
Transaction Amount: $8.37 USD
Buyer's Email: ----------@hotmail.com
Buyer's Name: Chris S.
Your Transaction ID: 3DH743928........
...............................................................................................

Fortunately, not a lot of money involved. I've emailed the buyer asking for him to resend his payment. Not holding my breath. He's been an eBay member for six years, has 5 Feedbacks, all positive, but he has left zero FB messages for others. The auction ended Dec. 19th, and the payment finally arrived Jan. 2nd (shipped next day).

I wish I knew whether it was the bank or the account holder who reversed the payment.

It always takes my bank (WAMU) about two weeks to inform me when a check I deposit bounces. If buyers can reverse Paypal payments, how are they any different from checks? I'm in shock sitting here thinking about the dozens of items I've shipped all over the globe in the last few weeks and wondering if their Paypal payments might be reversed.

Sue



AquilaStamps
(addict)
01/15/08 07:19 PM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  

Sue:
Sadly you have learned that PayPal considers the buyer always right and forget the seller. All a buyer has to do is file with PayPal item not received and they get their money back. Also buyer's remorse with a Credit Card can get them their money back. If they paid PayPal with an eCheck (you should have been notified by PayPal that it was an eCheck) - they can cancel the check or the check could bounce with their bank. Usually it takes 2 business days for an eCheck to clear or Bounce.

Usually a customer simply has to file any type of dispute with eBay and they get their money back. Years ago I had a customer in Brazil and he claimed the items never arrived. I had delivery confirmation that he got it. He filed for his money back with eBay. All I got was a notification from PayPal that they had given the money back. There was no opportunity to tell them about the Delivery Confirmation or anything. If they file with eBay at least you have a chance to fight back and get your side heard.

I would suggest that if he doesn't pay you per your request thta you contact eBay with all of the emails between you and the customer and information on Delivery Confirmation if you have it. If he got his shipping back also there is now no incentive for him to return the items to you. Often in a dispute PayPal will tell the customer to return the mdse and when they have confirmation that the items were returned they give back the money. If you have a PayPal rep I would contact them and see what they can explain to you. If you don't have a rep. Get several cups of coffee a few snacks and a comfortable chair and call PayPal. Expect to be on hold forever. Don't give up - that's what they want I think - for someone to tire of being on hold and hang up. When you get a rep let's hope they are a good one and have all your ducks in a row and explain to the rep and maybe they can find out what's happening for you.

So sorry you had this happen - It's a real kick in the gut when all of a sudden they reach in and take YOUR money away. Keep us informed and hope this helped some.

Garry



bluepennylady
(Pooh-Bah)
01/15/08 07:30 PM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  

Sue,

I just had a Paypal payment reversed a couple of weeks ago. And this one was absolutely classic, It was a Paypal employee error. Paypal even told me it was. They sent out a mass email notifying hundreds of sellers about the reversal. Then would not correct it.

So the payment you received was an "echeck" Paypal payment? Or just a regular Instant cash" payment?

If I was you, I would file an unpaid item dispute immediately. And file all the information you have with Paypal as far as tracking information, etc. And Garry is right, give them a call.

I"m really sorry that happened. It stinks. I don't think a buyer should be able to reverse charges.



Judy/blue

Visit my eBay store!
http://stores.ebay.com/bluepennylady?refid=store
Visit our website too!
http://www.pennyworthsales.com

tictictic_OnEbay
(enthusiast)
01/15/08 09:08 PM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Hi Garry and Judy,

I will definitely call Paypal if the buyer doesn't reinstate the payment in a day or two. How do you get a rep???

It was a regular Paypal Instant Payment. It item wasn't anything particularly breakable. I've shipped several of them in recent years. Plastic advertising thing, ships flat with sheet of cardboard (First Class). No biggie. No word from the buyer that there was any problem. Don't have Deliv Confirm; do have the PO receipt showing city, zip, weight.

Oddly enough, there is still a Dispute open for this transaction. He missed my two-week deadline then paid as soon as he got notified of the Dispute, saying he'd used someone else's account to bid and hadn't been getting my emails. Maybe he used someone else's Paypal acct, too. Hmmm.

Will let you know what happens.

Sue



AquilaStamps
(addict)
01/16/08 05:55 AM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  

Sue:
A PayPal rep is a hit and miss thing I think. I got one a few years ago - it was through an email and they gave me a name and "direct" number. The direct number is still one of those push 1 for this and 2 for that. Also over the few years the person has changed. A friend of mine that does far bigger PayPal volume than I do doesn't have a rep. So ... long story short, I'm not sure. However, I would suggest when you call them you ask for a rep and see what they offer. All they can do is say no and maybe they will give you one. One advantage is that the "rep" has your file at their fingertips and there isn't all of the same old questions about how do you spell your city, or you first or last name, and what's your secret question and answer. TRhe other advantage is you don't have to repeat a story over and over as they already know your history.

As Judy said I would file a NPB with eBay. At the very least you can get your fees back. If the buyer doesn't reply with a new payment I would also send an email and a letter to them telling them they have so many days to return your material.

Keep us informed as to what's happening. Hope this works out OK for you. It sure is no fun to have sent material and then the person gets their money back and keep the item. And really, do ask for a rep when you have them on the line.

Garry



AquilaStamps
(addict)
01/16/08 06:07 AM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  

Sue:

I forgot to say earlier that a reversal of a PayPal payment is very easy for the buyer. If they fund it with their Credit Card all they have to do is call the Credit Card company and deny payment and poof it's gone from your account. If they fund it with a regular Checking Account they can stop payment with PayPal or their bank and Poof it's gone from your account. If they file a Item Not Received with PayPal then PayPal sides with the customer and - yep you guessed it Poof it's gone from your account. If by chance you sent something with DC and you file that information with PayPal telling them you have confirmation that it was received - you will often be told never mind - the customer says they never got it. I guess PayPal assumes it was delivered to the wrong house. And once again - all together now - Poof.

There are some ways you can fight this but it isn't easy. If you noticed when you received word from PayPal there was nothing said about you disputing this. The only thing you can do is agree and even if you don't the money goes back to the buyer. This is where Phone Call after Phone Call and emails sending every bit of information you have may, I repeat MAY help.

All that being said PayPal is still pretty good except there are a few scammers out there who will do anything to get something for free. I'm not saying your person is scamming but still the money went Poof.

Garry



tictictic_OnEbay
(enthusiast)
01/16/08 12:51 PM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Hi Garry,

As to getting a rep, I'll ask (will call in a day or two -- want to give the buyer a chance to repay). I had a good (for me) last 30 days -- took in about $2500.00 via Paypal payments (usually don't do even half that). So maybe I'll get some respect. LOL.

I requested the guy's contact info (why do the contact info emails arrive blank??? have to open the Raw Source and then pour thru all the html to find the real info). The user ID is associated with an Asian woman's name (he did say he had used his mother-in-law's ID). The phone number is in my state, so maybe I'll get in a mood to call them. Ha ha. For an eight-dollar sale. Might be fun just to see what they have to say.

Sue



tictictic_OnEbay
(enthusiast)
01/16/08 01:57 PM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Woo hoo! He repaid. I didn't have to call anyone. He got my Dispute Console note, evidently, and reinstated the payment, sending his apologies and saying he didn't know how or why it had gotten reversed and that he hates computers sometimes. He is a newbie (so far as number of transactions), so maybe it was an innocent mistake.

Sue



bluepennylady
(Pooh-Bah)
01/16/08 02:09 PM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  

Sue,

Cool, Great! Excellent news!

Even if he is a newbie,, I bet you the Dispute didn't hurt at all. That always seems to get their attention even if they do whine.

I am so glad he paid you. That is wonderful!!!!!!!!



Judy/blue

Visit my eBay store!
http://stores.ebay.com/bluepennylady?refid=store
Visit our website too!
http://www.pennyworthsales.com

AquilaStamps
(addict)
01/16/08 03:44 PM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  

Sue:

Congratulations. That's great. He may very well have done it in error. But at least you got the payment. It's good when things work out.

Garry




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