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01/16/08 09:48 PM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Thanks for the congrats, Judy and Garry. It worked out this time, but........

The only suggestion Paypal offers is:

"In the future, you can help protect yourself against claims and reversals by following the guidelines of our Seller Protection Policy," which says, in part, "When you receive a payment, you are liable to PayPal for the full amount of the payment plus any Fees if the payment is later invalidated for any reason." For any reason. Sheesh! This must be the bane of existence for retailers the world over.

The Agreement goes on to say, "If the transaction is eligible under the Seller Protection Policy in section 11, PayPal will cover the amount of the Reversal or Chargeback and waive the Chargeback Fee, if applicable."

As I read it, the most pertinent qualification requirements are:

-- US, UK, Canada only.

-- Transaction Details page must say Seller Protection Policy Eligible (not sure what makes this happen; the way the buyer funds the payment?? or is it something the seller controls??).

-- Buyer's address must be confirmed (seems like about 50% of my buyers have unconfirmed addresses).

-- Must have trackable proof of delivery (I think about 3/4 of my things go First Class, so this would be the biggest drawback for me); for transactions over $250, a signed proof-of-receipt must be viewable online (I'm not even sure what that means).

-- And no local pick-up (which would pretty much exclude large pieces of furniture, vehicles, etc.).

Just too damn much trouble, seems to me. How 'bout you guys? Does anyone on this forum make use of the Seller Protection Policy?

Last week, I shipped a $600 painting. Transferred the money to my bank account and used it to pay the credit card bill. Sure hope it doesn't go POOF à la Garry (I'll have a grilled cheese and a poof à la garry )


01/16/08 09:58 PM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  


The "Seller Protection Plan" means you must ship to a confirmed address only Which means if you do that, you can't be on eBay Express because one of the requirements of ebay Express is to ship to unconfirmed addresses.

We use Tracking on all our packages, Everything even First Class. The cost is of course passe on to the buyer. The only thing that has ever saved my bacon as far as Paypal is concerned was the delivery/tracking information proofing I did indeed ship.

I agree though Sue, Paypal is more buyer protective than seller protective. And although every Paypal rep I have ever had has been extremely helpful, no two rarely if ever have the same answer for any particular issue.

I know that does not help you much at all, but at least you have an idea of what Paypal is wanting.

I am just so glad you got paid for your item.


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01/17/08 03:14 AM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  


Judy is so right - PayPal and for that matter eBay is buyer protective. They don't really have anything in place for the seller. The protection program is automatic in that you don't have to do anything to get it other than follow the rules set out by PayPal. It will show on the PayPal payment page "PayPal Protection"

I understand about confirmed addresses - often times the address the buyer gives on eBay, and in their email to you have nothing in common with their PayPal confirmed address - if it is confirmed at all. My understanding is that the address you ship to has to match exactly the PayPal address. But I should be checked on that for sure - I think it is down to even the stree address format.

What you have found out is something many have been complaining about for a long while - PayPal makes it very easy for a customer to "unpay" (poof) their payment and make it possible for them to have the merchandise and their payment back at the same time.

I don't think there is a lot that can be done. As Judy said, shipping with some form of tracking is worth it and you have to decide at what price point you are willing to take a loss because of no Delivery Confirmation or Signature Confirmation. The cost can be in the opening bid of the item obviously however, some items don't have that kind of room in them to hold a delivery conformation let alone a signature confirmation price.

Anyway, I'm pleased that you were able to get your money back and that the sale finally ended up with a happy customer and seller. Hang in there Sue, it can be a bumpy ride as you know but well worth some of those bumps. It's the "poofs" that get you though.


01/17/08 09:53 AM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Yesterday I told my wife about PayPal poofing. We kicked it around a bit. We were having trouble seeing how they could possibly just poof without hearing the seller's side.

I decided to play lawyer, justifying PayPal. Here's what I came up with:

If someone pays you in cash, and then when you take it to your bank you're told it's counterfeit, the payment just went poof. You were given a payment that you thought was good. It wasn't. Tough.

The analogy with an Instant Payment is pretty good. An Instant Payment is instant, but not any better than cash.

Yes, it's kind of weak. The main reason PP is nice to buyers is that there are lots more of them. It's not worth PP's time and money to referee disputes. A buyer who feels burned may never return to PP. A seller will grumble about "the cost of doing business" and keep using PP, because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Thanks for reminding me of PayPal poofing policies. The one practical thing I can think of to do is lower my threshold for insisting on an escrow service.


01/17/08 10:14 AM
Re: Paypal Payment Reversed! new [re: Ned]  


I believe your analogy is fairly accurate. About the only other thing you can do to help protect yourself is to require delivery confirmation on every single package. Which we do. That cost is passed on to the buyer. It doesn't matter if it is a First Class, Parcel Post or Priority, Delivery confirmation goes on every single package. Of course, delivery confirmation on Priority is free if you use online service to process the shipping.

It has been my experience, that with delivery confirmation, as far as item not received disputes, the delivery confirmation number supports the seller and the buyer lost the dispute.

Now fraudulent card use is another matter. So to help us a bit, we do not ship "Unconfirmed shipping" address payments the same day. We wait another 24 hours to ship as usually any problems pops up in the first 24 hours.

You can also stop a package that has a delivery confirmation number on it. So let's say you ship John Doe's package today and then tomorrow the money goes "poof" Contact the USPS and they will stop your package. Even if you have to pay to have it sent back, it is better than losing the entire product. I have had to do that before. And then I required the buyer to pay the shipping cost again.

And this "poof" issue with Paypal is another reason I do not submit feedback until after the buyer has their item and all is good. If something should happen, an Unpaid item dispute can jog them along. If they don't respond, the very least I can do for the eBay community is post a negative feedback remark letting everyone know what happened. Quite effective.


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