This isn't strictly an eBay/auctions issue, but it could be.

I sent a Paypal payment to my daughter using the email address she's had for about 18 months. I just assumed it was her Paypal email -- I should have checked with her first, but it was supposed to be a surprise. Paypal sent the money to someone else! They sent it to someone who used to have my daughter's email address. Here's what the Paypal details page says (email addresses altered for privacy; don't use them; they probably belong to real people, just not the people in this discussion):

Name: Avery Smith
Email: avery8127@sbcglobal.net
Payment Sent to: avery@dslextreme.com

Avery@dslextreme.com is my daughter's current and active email address. I requested a refund from Avery Smith, which she promptly issued.

As far as I can determine, all your old Paypal email addresses are still capable of receiving payments. Paypal says people need to be able to send money to old contacts.

In my Paypal account, when I check in History: Search: Show: All Activity - Simple View drop-down box: Payments Received from-----, there are ten email addresses listed, six of which I no longer have a right to use. Some of them go back 6 or 7 years, and I have to assume someone else is now using them, especially the AOL addresses (last time I had AOL, their policy was to keep relinquished addresses on ice for a year). For example, one of my old addresses was my-mail@aol.com. That would be something someone would snap up as soon as it became available again. So let's say you are friends with the current owner of my-mail@aol.com and you send them $20 as a surprise thank-you gift. I think it will go to me! And if I'm feeling squirrelly, I might just keep it! LOL

Paypal says there is no way to remove these old addresses from your account.

I'm not completely sure that having an old address in the History drop-down list means you can receive payments on it; you might need to have the address as one of your current Profile emails. I'm going to have my daughter send payments to some of my defunct emails and see what happens.

I'd appreciate comments on this and would like to hear from anyone who's received payments for old email addresses.

Thanks, Sue

Sue,

Now that is wild! I have never heard of that before in my entire life. You would think you could eliminate the old old email addresses from your account. That makes no sense at all. Did this happen today? Or earlier in the week? I am just thinking if it happened today, you might call on Monday and talk to a supervisor who has some clout. Someone has to have a better answer than what they gave you. Or you would think they would anyway.

On the bright side, you want me to send you some money to my-email@aol.com so you can go out to eat dinner??

Judy/blue

It happened about a week ago. I called Paypal the other night, but I was put on hold waiting for a supervisor for 20 minutes. Finally just hung up. I'll call next week during the day.

I'll let you know what I find out.

Sure send $ to my-email@aol, but don't forget I said the email addresses were made-up to protect the innocent. ;~>

When my daughter tried a year and a half ago to register her current email address and was told it was already registered, she thought it was really odd, but she knew calling them to ask about it would be time-consuming, so she just created a new email address and used that. We both think Paypal should invite applicants to contact Customer Service if they are told their email address is in use by another member.

Sue

Did some testing tonight. I logged into my other Paypal account, went to the Pay Anyone page, and put each of the six defunct addresses into the Recipient's Email box, filled in the rest, and clicked Continue. Only one came up as registered (not surprisingly, it was the "cute" one @AOL -- the one I knew would be snapped up as soon as possible after I let go of it). If I hadn't been conscientious and removed that address when I quit AOL, the person who has it now would have been prevented from registering it and may have done what my daughter did and just used some other email. Then one day a friend of theirs might send money without checking what their actual Paypal email was, and the payment would have come to me. However, I still don't know if addresses listed in your History count as registered addresses. Will find out next week.

So the bottom line is....if you try to submit your email for a new account at Paypal and are told it's already taken, call them and insist they contact the member with that email still on their account, and demand that they make sure it gets deleted.

Seems to me this has the makings of a law suit. Paypal invites people to "Send money to anyone with an email address in 55 countries and regions." Yeah, but unless you check in advance with the recipient, don't assume your cash will go to the person you've been corresponding with.

Sue

Sue,

I am certainly glad you have shared this incident with everyone.

I routinely have buyers send payment for their auctions to an incorrect email address. Why in the world they don't use the Paypal PayNow URL link in their AW2K Invoice, I will never know but some don't. That PayNow URL link is auto completed with all the information from the Invoice so all they have to do is hit "submit". Instead they will just pull some email addy out of thin air and send money to it then start emailing me about how I need to claim the funds.

hummm, sending funds to the email addy created to protect the innocent. So I deliberately send funds to an innocent party and then innocently ask the other party to deliberately return the funds sent in error. How's that for making a mess!

Please do let me know what Paypal says.

Judy/blue

Hi:
Let me add my strange experiences to this thread. About 2 years ago I had what I thought was a NPB. I had sent them a delinquent email - it basically says I may have messed up and missed their payment. Almost as soon as I sent the email I received a reply from them saying they had paid me via PayPal.

Sooooooo, I checked - cause old age causes the eyes not to see so good. But I thought I'd not missed anything as I always remove the shipping thingie on PayPal once I process the payment. No check marks showed up. I searched by their email address - nothing showed up. Searched by the eBay auction ID - nada.

Emailed them back - by now I was quickly gettng tired of email. I asked them if they would tell me what email address they used. In my "winning" email there is a clickable link to PayPal with my address. But I know everyone doesn't use it.

They sent back my correct PayPal address - oops nope it wasn't correct - they had transposed two letters. They also had been told (via email from PP) the money was received by whom ever got the payment.

I know this was messed up on PayPal's part. It seems as if they don't check on bounced emails. As some of you know my email ends in @gate.net. Well gate.net is a closed email provider. It was a local company here in FL at least 10 years ago. It was the very first internet connex and email address I ever had (300 baud - OMG how cool that was at the time). They were eventually sold to earthlink but earthlink allowed everyone who had @gate.net to keep it but no new addresses were given out unless you already had one and wanted to add to your list. Sorry this is long I know - that means that basically there are no new addresses available for that provider. The chances of someone having the same address as mine with a transposed pair of letters is slim to none.

PayPal wouldn't talk to me. But they did tell the sender that they would just have to be careful in the future and that the person who received the money wouldn't reply to their emails and couldn't be reached so the money was all gone no more.

I tried sending an email to that address and it bounced -- no such address existed. I have a friend who works at earthlink so I asked her if she could check. She did and yep, no email address like that spelling and nothing close to mine.

I got paid after my customer sent payment again. And the last I knew the poor person was out the money from the first transaction.

Question: Where did the money go??? No wonder PayPal is doing so well. Somewhere the money is floating around. Probably it is floating around very near PayPal's bottom line.

And to wrap this up: I've sent both of you $500.00 via paypal. Enjoy!!

Garry

My end-of-auction notifications have a Paypal link, too, and only about half my buyers use it (I know when they've used it, because the AW invoice number is in the Paypal payment notice). I think some people are wary of using any sort of email links; some of them may be using email/spam programs that strip out the links (??); and maybe the link gets broken up in their mail and they don't know how or are too lazy/rushed to fix the link and then copy-paste it. What amazes me is that they seem totally unaware of being able to log into their Paypal accounts and use the Pay-for-eBay-Items button. When they do it all "by hand" and type in my email address, they almost always omit the S in emailshere@. If they had TurboNote (or some other desktop postit-style note program), they could paste the email address to a note and drag-and-drop it directly into the Paypal fields. That's what I use with buyers' addresses at Click-N-Ship, so there's never a chance of typos.

Buyers are such annoying babies! ;)

Sue

Sue,

I have had the exact same experience with my Paypal PayNow URL links. Buyer's email informing me they are not going to use the link. Like it is some sort of sphished or spam link. So I have to go through the explanation about how the link is generated at Paypal for their convenience, blah, blah, blah, blah. Some use it, others don't. but how in the world they can miss the correct email addy is beyond me. My Paypal email address is posted on eBay and Overstock as well as plainly listed in the AW2000 Total amount due Invoice. They don't read./

Judy/blue

Sue:
LOL - I know they are really such babies. But, necessary ones all the same.

I always cut and paste from the PayPal notice for the same reason you discussed. That way there won't be any problems with names and addresses. I paste the address into the zip+4 formatter and it strips out all of the stuff people put into their address that isn't necesary and of course adds the +4 part to their zip. It will then allow me to paste it anywhere I wish. Sadly it won't work with addresses other than U.S. destinations.

As far as the buyer not knowing their way around PayPal . . . I have a brief email that I send to those that write to me and are lost as to how pay for their auctions. It just bypasses all of the eBay part of PayPal and lets them use the send to. If there are a lot of items then they get the other email that goes into the eBay part of paying. It helps a great deal not having to type the directions over and over. I know that some sellers will keep getting the email over and over. Others learn and they don't have any problems after that.

Garry

Garry,

We have an AW2K email template describing the "Send" funds procedure at Paypal. We have to send it out often.

Usually, the "babies" become our faithful repeat buyers as they really appreciate all the personal attention and help with their first purchase.

Judy/blue

Judy:

I agree, a lot of time those that I have had to spend a lot of time with - handholding and sending directions and reassuring them they will be ok - these become great repeat customers.

I think they feel that they matter to us and when they are looking for something again will check out those that helped them.

I don't know if anyone else does this but here goes ...
Many times I get a PayPal payment for an invoice that is say $10.00 and the PayPal payment is $13.00. The buyer has sent too much for shipping. As most of you do I combine shipping charges on multiple items. Yet a lot of time eBay gets it wrong and so does PayPal. Rather than waiting for the email from me (the one that goes out very fast after end of sale) they go ahead and pay.

When I discover this I automatically refund them through their PayPal account. This way I don't have a check to write, or risk sending cash. Also their acknowledgement of payment email letter is different than the regular one. It explains their actual invoice amount shows them what they have paid and then shows them the over payment. Then they are told that I have refunded them. From there on the email is exactly the same as the normal letter.

Other than the money isn't mine to keep - I find that it helps make that buyer into a permanent buyer. I have heard over and over from different ones how they have never received a refund like that.

Anyway, the refund goes out, they are given what they are due, and I keep what I am owed. Everyone is happy and I'm even happier when I see them come back again.

Garry

Garry,

I have quite a few buyers that have continually ongoing Invoices. So usually when they overpay on an Invoice, we simply credit the overpayment on their new Invoice. There is just something about the idea of having a credit that keeps them shopping. Like getting a gift certificate or something.

Judy/blue

Judy:

You mentioned a coupon. About 2 years ago I got a brain storm - and lots of time the lightning that comes with it can kill ya. I figured I could give the good repeat customers a coupon that they could apply to future purchases. I worked on it a while and decided to try it out.

I designed a coupon that prints three up on regular 8 1/2 x 11 paper and they fit nicely in a 6 3/4 envelope without folding.

I include a coupon in the package when I mail out their merchandise. There are no notes or anything - the coupon has all the info on it that they will need. It is good for 90 days from date of issue. It is worth $5.00 off a minimum of $10.00 purchase excluding postage.

I keep track of the ones that are mailed out and since I've been doing it only 4 haven't been redeemed. The numbers work out pretty good also. Over that same period of time each of the coupons have raised their total purchase by an average additional $23.87. Out of that I figure I've given away $5.00 so my net net on it is 18.87. So far this has worked well. I'm not sure what the exact paramaters are about sending this out -- . It sorta depends. If someone purchases from me a second time and it is a fairly hefty amount they get a coupon. A third purchase from anyone gets a coupon. Sometimes they don't get a coupon because their purchases have been in the $3.00 range. I did try one of the low $ amount purchases early on - thinking I might be able to raise their purchases. Well that is one that hasn't been used. LOL I have noticed that the coupon drives them to the stores on eBay. Almost every time I send out a coupon the person goes to the stores and starts buying stuff. I think what happens is that they get carried away thinking "I've got a free $5.00 and I'm gonna use it". In the process they go way over the $5.00.

Anyway, your mention of coupon made me think about it. I've attached a lowres jpg of the coupon to this post. Don't know if it will show up or not. If it doesn't let me know if you want it and I can just email it.

Garry

Garry,

Coupons and gift certificates work. We give away $10.00 gift certificates quite often. The customer almost always spends far more than the $10.00. It is a mind game. If we give a $20.00, they almost never spend the entire $20.00 the first time around. Give them $10.00 and they will spend at least $20.00.

The coupon didn't show up. Email that little dude to me pretty please with sugar on top. How's that for whining

Judy/blue

Judy:

$20.00 is going to be way to much for me to give away at this point. I've been thinking about doing $10.00 though. I just may try it now after reading what you had to say about your experience with the 10 and 20 coupon.

I'm wondering if anyone else has had any experience with coupons. Other eBay Overstock sellers have to have had some kind of coupon promotion. I'm not sure if it is a marketing thing or a customer relations thing. Which ever it is it almost always brings in a result.

I've come to realize that it has been way worthwhile for the little time and effort it takes. I'm sure it has brought people back simply because they have something FREE - "freebies wantsies".

The whining worked - email on the way.

Garry

Garry,

I didn't mean that we give away $20.00. "Cause I don't. The gift certificates are only for $10.00. But the customer always ends up spending at least $20.00 or more. Most often it is more than $20.00.

My husband says I have the best whine in the world. And he says when I bat my brown eyes and then whine, he just can't resist I am soooo bad!

Thank you so very much for sending me the coupon via email

Judy/blue

Garry,

Thanks again for the coupon. That is pretty cool looking. I think I might "steal" an idea or 2

Not only do we do lots of hand holding but I will personally intervene when a customer becomes irritated or upset. There is something about the "boss" jumping into the situation that seems to make the customer feel better. Usually, they calm right down and will tell me it really isn't that big of a deal, say "dont' be too hard on your staff, everyone makes mistakes" and they are good to go. The buyer just wants to know someone is paying attention to their frustration or problem. I don't have to intervene often but when I do, normally it has a good outcome.

Judy/blue

Judy:
Take/steal whatever you want on the coupon. It works for my situation and may just work for yours. Hmmm, you know those tins??? - why not advertise that a coupon is hidden in every X number of tins? Or that x number of tins have a coupon enclosed. Might work right?

Hand holding is a lot of the work of eBay/Overstock. However, I don't have the one thing you have that really makes a difference. That's a Staff. So when I get someone calling or eMailing etc it's me. I do have to admit that a couple of times I've emailed as someone else saying that I've heard of the problem and am here to see what I can do. That has worked but the split personality thingie can get me caught if I forget. LOL

Garry

Garry,

Split personality---how funny!! But I understand how it works. I will tell a mad buyer that I will speak to my staff about the issue immediately. Get up, go to their workstation, tell them I am speaking to them and leave. It seems that the buyer will settle down just thinking someone is getting into trouble.

Judy/blue

I spent a total of 47 minutes on hold waiting for a supervisor (three calls over two days, one on Friday night; two on Monday morning; gave up on the first two calls; finally got someone on the third try, all the while hearing "we appreciate your patience during this brief delay" -- customer service in general just gets suckier by the day, doesn't it?).

So when I told Richard about the problem, he said, "It happens all the time; there's nothing we can do about it." He said ISPs recycle email addresses, and Paypal members fail to remove their defunct addresses, and that's that. The only thing I could get him interested in doing was placing a note on the home page warning people that if they don't confirm that a friend's/relative's/colleague's email is also their CONFIRMED PAYPAL ADDRESS, there's a chance the payment will go to someone else. So there ya go. Buyer beware....er, payer beware. Not a good idea to send surprise payments.

I also suggested they set up the system to notice when someone attempts to register an email address that is already registered, but he said so many computers are constantly trying to hack into the system with randomly-generated email addresses, it would not be practical for them to respond to each one with an invitation to verify the address by replying to a confirmation email. Makes sense, I guess. Still sucks.

Sue

Sue.

Thanks for letting us know. And thank you for going through all of that bologna. I agree the customer service is getting ridiculous. Waiting--listening to automated prompts when you really need to speak with a human being. Then when you actually get the human being, the human cannot assist you and transfer you to another department. And then you get disconnected and have to start all over again.

I am glad you took the time to post about this. I hope new and "old" user read about this and are careful about where they send funds.

Judy/blue

Hi Garry,

Just a follow-up rant.....

Isn't it just unbelievable that there are still people out there who are clueless about using the two-letter abbreviations for states? I get buyers who type Ariz., or Cal., or N.Y., or Ill., as if it's still the 1950s (hey, maybe I'm bad-mouthing some senior citizens, but I'm in my 60s, and if I can get this down pat, so can anyone).

Some people have their city and state duplicated in their Paypal addresses (I think they must type it in the box for a second line of address and then ALSO type the city in the proper box and select their state from the drop-down menu), and who knows how long it will take them to notice the problem and fix it? Sheesh!!!

Sue

Sue,

I will follow your rant. I just love the people that do not use a comma to separate the city and state. So then when I Store buyer's address in AW2K, the city will not store.

Judy/blue