Listing
   >> eBay
Thread views: 46538 Previous threadView all threadsNext thread*Threaded Mode

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)
tictictic_OnEbay
(member)
10/30/06 02:11 PM
More on Now What? re keywords  

I know this is not a sexy topic, and it's also a little brain-numbing, but I think it's important, so I'm going to post about it again. [Be sure to read the Update at the bottom]

EBay's search protocols are very tricky; seems to me they are pretty close to rocket science. I've read their Help files as well as the site Moonstruck22/Marty posted here. Informative and interesting, but I'm still puzzled by which keywords and keyword strings get results and which don't.

Right now I've got an auction for a Halloween toy with its original box. The name of the toy is AMAZING FLYING WITCH (I am NOT trying to promote my auction; it's just a perfect example of the search problem). If someone knows of this toy and is searching on that exact name, the auction WILL NOT SHOW UP in search results. Here is an excerpt from the description:

AMAZING FLYING WITCH
BATTERY OPERATED
Nicely detailed -- love those green socks and pointy fingers; flies by propeller at end of broom; works well (batteries not included); about 8" x 11"; nothing missing; with box (great illustration of her flying over a city with strange towers and turrets)


And here are the specifics of which words/strings (or keyword expansions, as eBay apparently calls them) work and which don't work (all searches are Title and Description, All Categories):

Works:
"flying witch"
"amazing flying" witch
and of course this: amazing flying witch (no quotes), but then you get 90 listings.
Does not work:
"amazing flying witch", which is the full name of the toy as printed on the box.

Works:
"green socks" "pointy fingers"
Does not work:
"green socks and pointy fingers"

Works:
propeller broom (no quotes)
Does not work:
propeller "end of broom"

Works:
"strange towers"
Does not work:
"strange towers and turrets"
"strange towers and"
"towers and turrets" (although a bunch of listings for decorated eggs turn up -- apparently, Towers and Turrets is a brand name).

Works:
witch "flying over"
Does not work:
"flying over a city"
witch "flying over a city"

I don't know about you, but I find this troubling. If I were looking for another of these toys, I would study the box and use search strings such as "amazing flying witch", propeller "end of broom", "flying over a city" witch, but none of these would bring up the auction in question. In fact, after seeing no results for the exact name of the toy, I'd probably just give up, being confident that any seller would certainly use that name in their description or title.

We all do our best to think like an eBay shopper when we write our descriptions. If eBay's search protocols don't behave like ordinary people think, our efforts are defeated. I hope you'll take a few minutes to check some of your auctions to make sure the most likely search strings are working, and if not, please complain to eBay.

Thanks, Sue

UPDATE:

Just before posting this, I decided to try something. I revised the auction to add the phrase amazing flying witch in black text, so it's hidden in the black background -- it's above the pictures and below the link to email me (if you go to item #140047390944 and highlight it, you'll see it). Now when I search on this exact keyword string (with quote marks), the auction comes up! What does this mean??? Is it something to do with the formatting of the original auction's text? The original has the phrase in Maiandra GD, size 18, green, all caps, centered. The phrase in the revised auction is in the default eBay formatting (Arial 10, black, lower case, aligned left). Should we all be hiding these key phrases in our backgrounds?? Is it something to do with the location in the description (above the images)?? What is going on??





bluepennylady
(addict)
10/30/06 02:24 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  

Sue,

Interesting indeed!

Something that I was reminded of at eBay live, when attending the Organic and Natural search engine optimization seminar, was to write all my descriptions in lists using the bullet form. Bold the first line which should match the auction title line as the robots and search engine spiders see that as important and relevant information. Since I have been doing that again, I find my auctions pull up more easily.

I have found the same problem as you when searching for auctions. The more eBay works on the search engine, it seems the worse or pickier it gets. That's just my thought on it. I don't know if it really is but it seems that way to me anyway.

Judy/blue



AquilaStamps
(member)
10/30/06 02:42 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: tictictic_OnEbay]  

Sue:
Nope, not a sexy topic but it sure is important. First of all you are sooo smart hiding that text. Don't know why it works, but I may have an idea. First though 99.99& of my auctions are white type on a black background. They search pretty well. I've noticed lately though that searching is getting worse and worse. I tried something on your auction. I searched for

propeller at end of broom

It didn't find anything but down below it gave me suggestions to check out:

Get more results with fewer keywords:
4 items found for propeller at end broom
912 items found for at end broom
1585 items found for propeller at end ....

your item was in all of them

First I thought they were taking out short words such as prepositions etc in the way that google does. But that's not it.

I ran a test on one of my auctions and was able to find almost every search I did but in a few had to go down to where they make suggestions and they threw out "short" word

One of the key things I have been acting on is to try to keep "short" words out of the title and first line of the description. Now I use bulleted text (white on black) and for some reason every time I switch off from that to regular paragraph text the ability to search goes way down.

Today in Ina Steiner's newsletter she had this:

Buyers Say eBay 'Favorite Searches' Feature is Broken
By Ina Steiner
AuctionBytes.com
October 30, 2006
eBay shoppers are complaining that the "favorite searches" feature is broken. On the eBay discussion forum devoted to search issues, a buyer posted, "I have a list of Favorite Searches stored on My eBay. I use them once a week to check for stuff. I always get many hundreds of results. Today they all give me 0 results. Did eBay change something? Or, is something broken?"

So maybe it isn't just you. If buyers are noticing it in their favorite searches that used to work -- and they don't work now? eBay is messing up yet again.

Don't know if any of this helped or not but I'll try some searches later this evening and see what I can come up with using your auction. Oh yea, love the witch!

Garry



bluepennylady
(addict)
10/30/06 03:07 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Sue.

The black text on black background is an excellent idea. The same concept would apply to white background using white font. I use the same background as Garry with Black text. Some of my auctions have the dark blue font. Those are the ones my staff was messing around to see how it looked and we never got changed.

I am curious if white text on white background would help auctions pull up higher in the searches. I may try that

Judy/blue



substance292
(newbie)
11/01/06 11:36 AM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

This is such an interesting thread! (And I'm not being sarcastic.) I was wondering if any of you use meta head sections in your auction templates? If this has already been covered and I missed it, sorry.



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/01/06 11:40 AM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher,

No I don't but I have seriously considered it, wondering if it would work. And if it is allowed. I wonder if eBay would consider meta tags as keyword spamming.

Okay, who's gonna be in charge of contacting eBay to find out

Judy/blue



substance292
(newbie)
11/01/06 11:42 AM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Hi Judy! Actually I have seen many when I "view source" for someone's auction. I haven't put any together myself. I never thought of it being keyword spamming!



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/01/06 11:45 AM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher,

Well what just came to mind is Sue hiding words in her background. Same principle just not using the Meta tags instead simply typing search words in the description that are the same color as the background. If Sue's auctions pull up better in a search, I bet the Meta tags would be just as effective.

Hummm, I may try that!

Judy/blue



substance292
(newbie)
11/01/06 11:49 AM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy, I was actually thinking more along the lines of being picked up in a Google search or something like that. I don't know much about it but I'm doing a little research. The information in this thread is just amazing.

I was just reading your posts in another thread about AW2K not supporting shopping carts. Does that mean there is no way to update a website from AW2K and use it for direct sales?

- Cher



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/01/06 12:08 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher,

The meta tags and hiding words in the description will both pull up Google searches. Just the same as writing a Review or Guide and inserting the tags on those. Or your Myworld.ebay.com pages.

The answer to your updating a website and shopping cart with AW2K is yes and no If you have your own website containing AW2k generated websites and thumbnail pages, you can absolutely insert a Paypal shopping cart and allow the buyer to purchase. The backend management is all manually done though. YOu can't go to your own website and update like you do for Auction lots. But it can be done. I sell product off of my own website all of the time. I don't have a shopping cart---yet. The buyer emails me the list with the Item number, I manually create an Invoice and add the requested product..

Now I am working on something else. And I think it is totally doable and I will be able to link the Aw2K website thumbnail links to a webstore which has a shopping cart. When I am done "figuring" out all the How to's. I will let you know. The webstore site is free. I only have 3 items up as I am playing around trying to figure out the "tech" part. So I'll let you know how that goes.

The webstore site is called www.ecrater.com. So far I have been impressed. It costs nothing to have the store. They only charge for upgrades. If you don't use upgrades, it costs nothing. You might go take a look.

Judy/blue



substance292
(newbie)
11/01/06 12:25 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Hi Judy,
I will check it out, probably in about 1 minute! You have already looked at integrating PayPal's standard shopping cart?
- Cher



substance292
(newbie)
11/01/06 12:38 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Wow Judy, this place is pretty nice. Has it been around long?



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/01/06 01:14 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher,

See I told you!! I honestly do not know. I learned of the site from a bunch of my seller friends from Overstock. One of the ladies that posts product there, is selling more every month on ecrater than in her eBay store. She says the RSS feeds and submissions to Google, Froogle and Yahoo in conjunction with all the free promotion tools they provide have worked wonders. She ran quite a bit of cash the first 30 days she was up and running.

I have looked at the paypal shopping cart and will do so more closely after the Holidays. I just can't cram anything else into my days right now. We are so busy not only in Auctions but buyers just emailing us back on our AW2K shipping notices wanting more product and the retail store is busy as well.

Let me know if you open a store so I can go look And just so you know, I created an eCrater auction profile in AW2K and assigned the qty I have offered at eCrater to the Auction lot. When someone buys something, I manually create an Invoice in AW2K add the correct qty from the Auction lot and just log in the payment they submitted at ecrater. Does that make sense?

Judy/blue



substance292
(newbie)
11/01/06 02:02 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Hi Judy, yes that makes sense! I've been sitting her trying to figure out how to manage back end and "duh" of course. I think we even discussed this before when I had some sales and no auction lots. Anyway, it all has come back to me now.

I think I will try to set one up, I'll let you know when it's presentable. I've been working on Zen Cart but it seems a little confusing for me.

I looked at the integration manual and some of the information on the PayPal shopping cart and it looks like so much work! I don't know if I will even bother with it.

-Cher



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/01/06 02:11 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher,

Yes the Paypal shopping cart does look like work to me to. Which is why I will wait until after the Holidays. I can post product at ecrater more quickly and efficiently than attempting to learn something that new during the Christmas selling season. Of which is upon us now!

I am glad I made sense. Sometimes I wonder about myself with this over 50 mind. OR an over 25 mind, as Garry tells me He is just trying to make me feel better

Judy/blue



substance292
(journeyman)
11/01/06 02:13 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Well, if you are like me, you have a 29 year old mind with 21 years of experience!



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/01/06 02:22 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher,

Yeah, that's it, I have a 29 year old mind. Yep that is the ticket, that is for sure. That is my story and I am sticking to it.


Judy/blue



substance292
(journeyman)
11/01/06 02:23 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy, works for me! -Cher



AquilaStamps
(member)
11/01/06 05:14 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy/Marty
When I got my "freebie eBay Phone Call" I asked the guy about metatagging. He said it is not spamming and in fact it helps with the spiders as they crawl looking for things to index. So the short answer is it's not illegal - according to "phone guy".

I tried it on a few auctions and then exported my CVS file to be picked up by the spiders. I looked at it and sure nuff there were far better keywords at the beginning as opposed to stuff just randomly picked up here and there.

Garry



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/01/06 05:17 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy:
LOL -- I've got auctions going up tonight with a few having the "Suekey words" in it. I did a few with black type on a black background so I'll see what happens.

I thought what she did was a great idea - but prolly eBay will turn their nose up and sniff at it but it's worth a try. Those people are gonna drown some day with their noses so turned up at anything fun.

Garry

Garry



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/01/06 05:20 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher:
The keyworking using metatags that I talked about with the "phone guy" was in reference to google and other spiders picking up stuff to index. So the short answer is that it will help google pick up your stuff.

Garry



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/01/06 05:29 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher/Judy
Have you thought of using the individual paypal buyit buttons? You log onto your paypal account and they allow you to generate html for a buy it button that refers to a specific product and a specific price. Works quite well. But I wouldn't want to do a lot of them. I've done some for my web site. But I have a card processor and shopping cart for another website. I'm still working with the shopping cart guy to integrate the stamp website with the other. The PayPal shopping cart and card processing sounds good but when I talked with them on a phone call it gets more difficult and also all of your eggs are in one basket and when the get in a snit and shut you off you're sunk.

Garry



substance292
(journeyman)
11/01/06 06:13 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Hi Garry! The individual buttons were where I started looking around. I wanted to be able to add multiple items to a cart though, so I just kept on going down the list. It just got so complicated that I decided I would rather pay a webstore site $30 a month to do it for me. But I'm very interested in Judy's new selling site so I think all the questions may be answered! Thanks Judy!

- Cher



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/01/06 06:42 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher:
Yea, the same thing happened to me. I made about 15 or so buttons and about wore out my fingers typing in all the info for each one. Thankfully they are for items that I have multiples of . But after that it was just too much of a chore to keep going. The PayPal solution for shopping cart sounded good at first but I already have a card processor and shopping cart as I said. After talking to PayPal about it figured it still wouldn't be worth all the switching 'cause I couldn't see the sense of having two processors and two carts. My cart "guy" is being helpful.

I saw Judy's suggestion and gave it a peek. Looks like a fantastic site for the christmas selling season. A good place to move a lot of that eclectic product that makes a perfect gift. I might try using it to sell "christmas" First Day Covers and frameable Panels.

Garry



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/01/06 06:48 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy:
Darn - you're good. I took a peek at eCrater as you suggested. It sure looks pretty good. I like it even if just for the Christmas season for me - moving some stuff that would make christmas gifts - First Day Covers and First Day Panels that are frameable.

You're a treasure for finding that site - - a huge thanks for letting it be known. I'll let you know how it works out.

Garry



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/01/06 07:07 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Garry/Cher,

So far everything that ecrater says is exactly how it is. The webstore isn't hard to set up. And there are a lot of tools for promoting that are completely free including submissions to directories which I do anyway.

If you want to see what the buyer sees, here is the link to my store home page. Keep in mind, before I give you the URL and let you look that I have been playing around with this so there are only 3 or 4 things posted right now. But I can tell you they get hit every single day.

No laughing!! http://bluepennylady.ecrater.com/

Well go ahead and laugh I can take it

Judy/blue



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/01/06 07:19 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy:

KEWL
and ... there was no laughing. I like it. Looks good.

Garry



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/01/06 07:24 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Garry,

You are so nice!! I have to get more product up before next Tuesday night as one of my college classes will be viewing it. Yikes!

I figured that since it doesn't cost anything unless I use the upgrades, it can't hurt to have the webstore. I can tell you that I have received inquiries from prospective buyers. And new inquiries from what I am presuming must be related to the search engine submissions ecrater does for me. I am drawing my conclusion based on the fact this is the only significant new thing I have done.

Judy/blue



substance292
(journeyman)
11/12/06 04:00 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Hi Garry,

Have you noticed any difference in the auctions with your "SueKeywords"???

- Cher



substance292
(journeyman)
11/12/06 04:02 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Hi Judy,

Been working hard on this. It may not look too fancy but this is what I have so far. Thanks for taking a look :)

www.sistersrejoicestudio.ecrater.com

- Cher



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/12/06 04:07 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher,

WOW!! You have certainly been working hard, That looks WONDERFUL!! You should be proud of yourself.

I have to get off of dead center and get my store finished. Now that the night college classes I was teaching just concluded, I'll have some extra time to work on it.

Congratulations!!!

Judy/blue



substance292
(journeyman)
11/12/06 04:57 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Hi Judy! Thanks for the compliments :D Makes my day!

- Cher



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/12/06 05:03 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher,

You have some really nice jewelry. And you have a real eye for colors and backgrounds and it shows in the way you have done your store.

Be sure you go to the promotion part of the site and promote your store. Submit it to the free directories and google/froogle/msn searches.

Judy/blue



substance292
(journeyman)
11/12/06 05:39 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy,

Thank you! It has taken me a couple of years to get to this point with my photos and I seem to learn something new everyday. I have done the submission part, even the adwords, but I haven't messed with Google/Froogle. Isn't that automatic for eCrater? My dad loves eCrater also, he set up a store the day he looked at it. I hope that it gets more popular, it's a great plan. Lately I have been wondering how anybody makes money on eBay with the huge fees?

- Cher



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/12/06 05:44 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher,

You are correct it is automatic with eCrater. I'm sorry. I meant to submit to the directory on both of those. Now I dont' exactly remember where the submission was located. There is another free submission that launches to a whole long list of search engines. I'll dig it up and let you know where it is. Once a year I get an email requesting updated information. I just got it a week or so ago. Hummm, wonder where I stuck that email?

Judy/blue



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/12/06 05:57 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Cher

Found it! http://www.1stopsubmit.com

There is a free submission and a low cost one. Several of my seller friends use just the free stuff.

Judy/blue



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/12/06 06:31 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Sue:

I've contacted Live Help at eBay. Told them that I understood there was a new secret keyword structure and that they weren't letting everyone into it. Also suggested that if did not wish hearing from my attorney they would tell me everything about "suekeywords". I told them there was a world wide conspiracy to keep this latest and greatest eBay upgrade a closely guarded secret from everyone. LOL LOL It would be a riot though if somewhere along the line eBay suggested your keyword method. Well that won't happen as it will help out the seller.

On the side of reality: I've sueified a few auctions. I've noticed a slight increase in hits on those auctions - the difference was noticed in a highter counter number than usual for that type of auction. I havent had a chance to do the omniture thingie on those lots but will the first part of this coming week and let you know what I find out.

LOL "SueWords" prolly will be the final name for this rather than "suekeywords". The "suewords" sounds so very exotic - sort of like a come hither to buyers.

Garry



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/12/06 06:33 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: substance292]  

Cher:
It looks Tony The Tiger Grrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeattttttttttt.

Congrats on all your efforts.

Garry



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/12/06 06:45 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy:
Maybe you are talking about:

http://www.websbiggest.net/update.cfm?d=YOUR-WEB-SITE-Here.com

Anyway it's one I use among others.

Garry



AquilaStamps
(enthusiast)
11/12/06 06:46 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy:

Oops, I was wrong - sorry. Teach me to stick my nose where not invited.

Garry



bluepennylady
(addict)
11/12/06 06:52 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Garry,

No, No, NO!!! No apologies!!! I am so glad you posted it. That was the other one I was digging for. Even been over to the TOASA private forum to see if I could find it again. I use that one as well!!!! This week hasn't been one of my better memory weeks. Seems like I can't remember what I have done from one day to the next.

Judy/blue





substance292
(journeyman)
11/21/06 08:56 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: AquilaStamps]  

Thanks Garry, appreciate your opinion. I'm really liking the eCrater experience so far.



substance292
(journeyman)
11/21/06 09:08 PM
Re: More on Now What? re keywords new [re: bluepennylady]  

Judy, this is an awesome site! Thanks for the address. I've been there, done that!

- Cher




Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | (show all)
Previous threadView all threadsNext thread*Threaded Mode
Jump to

www.AuctionWizard2000.com | Contact Us Forums powered by WWWThreads